Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on conflicts in the Middle East and Russia-Ukraine
WASHINGTON (KYMA, KECY/CBS) - Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates spoke with Margaret Brennan on Face the Nation Sunday.
One of the topics discussed during the interview was the conflict in the Middle East, with Brennan saying President Donald Trump concluded a weeklong trip to the region and lifted sanctions on Syria and its interim government.
In addition, Brennan said President Trump is trying to secure a diplomatic deal with Iran, but so far, there is no success in getting Israel to stop its war in Gaza, prompting her to ask Gates how he would judge the president's foreign policy as of now, to which Gates responded saying:
"What's interesting to me is that we're back in the Middle East, after all the talk about the pivot to Asia and China and so on. We have two aircraft carriers, strike groups, in the Middle East. We had the president in the Middle East. I don't have to say this though...I think, ironically, the Middle East may be one place where there are some real opportunities and possibilities. I think that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, are all so focused on diversifying their economies, reforming, modernizing, bringing their populations into the 21st century. It's a place to do business, for China, for the United States, for everybody else. The actions of Israel, post the October 7 massacre by Hamas, has really changed the strategic equation in the Middle East, because Iran has been dramatically weakened, mainly by Israel's attacks on Hamas, our attacks on the Houthis, but also, and especially, Hezbollah, and the weakening of Hezbollah. And with the fall of Assad, Syria is no longer a conduit for Iranian weapons to get to Hezbollah...and then you add to that, the Israeli air attack on the Iranian nuclear facility that basically wiped out their air defenses. Iran's in a very weak place now. And if there is an opportunity to do a deal on nuclear, this is it."
During the interview, Brennan and Gates talked about the latter not really like former President Barack Obama's nuclear deal with Iran, which, according to Brennan, Trump is "trying something that may be somewhat similar."
When Brennan asked what he thinks has to be in the deal for it to be a success, Gates said the following:
"I would agree with those in the Senate and elsewhere that Iran really has to stop their nuclear program. They have to stop their enrichment entirely...and if they want to have a civil nuclear program, they need to import the uranium, the enriched uranium, to do that. But they need to get rid of the stockpile. They were supposed to get rid of a big part of the stockpile earlier. But I think just given the nature of their program and the secretiveness of the whole thing, I think in terms of monitoring compliance, you really have to get rid of their program in a way that it can be monitored by international experts from the IAEA or whoever. But...you know, one of my concerns, and that's not going with the earlier agreement, that's apparently not going to be addressed and won't be in this, was the need for them to get rid of their ballistic missile programs. And I think that's not going to be if there is an agreement, it doesn't look to me like that's going to be a part of it."
Brennan followed up by asking Gates if he would oppose an Israeli strike, "with U.S. support," on Iran's nuclear program, Gates said, "If you attack their nuclear program in a way designed to try and destroy it, you will simply make the Iranians more determined to have a nuclear weapon and to bury the whole program even deeper. It buys you a little time, but it doesn't solve the problem."
Later in the interview, Brennan and Gates talked about the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, with Brennan saying Secretary of State Marco Rubio believes there won't be a "clear read on Vladimir Putin's intentions until he sits down with President Donald Trump."
When asked what he would advise for the one-on-one, and whether it really takes a face-to-face to judge Putin's intentions, Gates said:
"I'm not sure even in a face to face that you can judge Putin's intentions. My own view, having dealt with him and having spent most of my life working on Russia and the Soviet Union, is Putin feels that he has a destiny to recreate the Russian Empire. And as my old mentor, Zbigniew Brzezinski once said, without Ukraine, there can be no Russian Empire. So I think the President is, based on what I read, is getting the sense that, as he put it, that Putin is tapping him along and that, you know, Putin hasn't given up on any of his original goals in Ukraine. He's going to insist on occupying all four of the eastern provinces of the Donbas. Perpetual recognition of Russian ownership of Crimea. A pro Russian government in Kyiv and a Ukrainian military that looks a lot like an enhanced police force. And, no membership in NATO and probably no membership in the EU...he wants Ukraine, basically, to be a client state of Russia. And I don't see what it would take to get him to walk away from any of those goals in the foreseeable future. I mean, when you look at 900,000 or so Russian soldiers that have been killed or wounded. He's paid a huge price...the Russian economy and so on. It hasn't deterred him in the slightest."
Brennan followed up by asking Gates if he would advise the president not to take the face-to-face meeting with Putin, to which Gates said, "I would like to see what if...I were ever asked, I would say you need to figure out some leverage that you have going into that meeting with Putin. What can you do that puts more pressure to bear on Putin to make him believe his interests are served by not just a ceasefire, but...basically, at least freezing things in place."
To watch Brennan's full interview with Gates, see attached video.
